I stay dead.

>>3144
so you dont think you'll be reincarnated or some shit like that? idk i cant wrap my brain around staying dead. or staying alive, in heaven OR hell for that matter.

<=This

>>3147
well, to be quite honest captain, i have no idea. idk, if you think of the energy of your lifespan having a start point and an end point, or like religion, a start point and no endpoint, it doesnt really make sense. no, if the flow of life was like a circle, that just kept going and going, and there were just the same souls filling lifeless forms for all of time, over and over, it makes a little more sense, but not really cause i still have no fucking idea.

>>3146

There are some things I don't understand about reincarnation:

1. Population on earth is growing, so where do the new souls come from?

2. Can humans be reincarnated as animals or plants and vice versa?

3. Would slowing the extinction of other species slow the growth of the human population?

>>3155
well, what if it was kinda balanced? like, as more plants and trees and other animals are destroyed, more humans are allowed to live? so, yes, we could possibly we reincarnated as trees and animals, but it would all balance eachother out

I thought I might add a discussion that I had with one of my friends. Then I thought no. Long story short, my friend think's that the universe is infinite, but there is only a finite amount of matter, thus a finite amount of combinations. That would mean that the mind will be reincarnated at some point and all of that time in between will seem like sleep.

>>3158

So what you're saying is there's a fixed number of souls in the universe?

>>3162

But that would be recycling, not reincarnation!

>>3164
well whatever you would consider as souls, yes. and they all have to be occupying a body at all times, or some may possibly get a break, or become souls in different dimensions or galaxies (if other life exsists)

>>3168

Relax, it's just a thought experiment.

>>3168
how about i show you my asshole

>>3143

Of course it's sort of hard to accept, but I don't think there's an afterlife or reincarnation.

The way I see it I won't literally live on, but at least I will be remembered for the next 2-3 generations at least. I don't believe that I will be around to see it, but it's just a comforting thought.

And yes, I'm afraid of dying. Who isn't?

>>3175
ehh man this whole world is just fucking confusing. you know what? im gunna die when i die and then ill know. till then, im just gunna live shit up ya know?

>>3177
Once you know, could you tell us? It would be helpful.

full conciousness
also, this belongs to /id/, not that i'm complaining

In hell you are stuck watching nothing but nazi youtube videos and fox news. This is not as lulzy as it sounds, as there are no jews to troll. What with them all being in jew hell. . . or jew heaven (which is banging shiksas and gambling with YOUR money on the stockmarket all day. I love jew heaven).

>>3174

this

I go back to ho it was before I was born? I don' remember but I expect it to be blank. Or hell, maybe.

>>102
>>106
this

i like to believe in reincarnation. whether it happens or not, i dont care, it helps me to accept the world as it is.

i like that thing in /x/ where we are all the same consciousness going through every lifespan.

makes more sense than most fucking religeons. Thats an ideal anyway, im willing to accept that it may just be nothing. But ofcourse, we can't even comprehend nothing.. and that is why this question will plague us until we die.

>>191
if you want something that makes sense and blows your mind check out the M theory

>>192
yea man i've seen that before.. infinite universes with infinite parallel universes. Amazing but way too much to handle.

i think some of the simplicity of the consciousness story appeals to me.

What happens when you die is that you die.

>>194
Cool tautology bro.

>>119
You don't HAVE a soul, you ARE a soul.
The spirit is the person himself...not his body, not his name, his mind, or anything else. It is that which is aware of being aware. You can't see a spirit...it is not a thing. It is the creator of things.

When the body dies, you leave and then you can hang around for a while or you could be an animal or a plant or a tree...it's really up to you, but what usually happens is you go to the hospital maternity ward and go into a new baby body. Then you forget everything.

It's not reincarnation...you don't become a different person...you are still you, with a different body.

>>196

That last part fits with what I think. Its the fact that forgetting things...what would it be if say, I started to remember past lives? I've heard of other people remembering past lives, or clairvoyants that can tell someone about their past lives...but to me clairvoyants are just people with smoke and mirrors. Honestly though, nobody has a definite answer on what happens, so like other people have said, I'm just gonna ride this shit out and see what happens when it happens.

Although on the other hand, has anyone taken suicide into consideration? Would there be a restriction on someone that has killed themselves to see what comes next, or if there is such a thing as an afterlife?

Show me which organ in the human body houses the soul. There isn't one, and to claim that the random arrangements of carbon-based lifeforms have any sort of special/eternal/universal/metaphysical bond with the lofty idea of a 'spirit' or 'soul' or 'energywave' is all just the notion of people who are too frightened to accept their mortality.

When the brain ceases to function, you are no longer alive, and therefore cease to be. You are nothing more than decaying organic matter. That's the end game, folks.

>>198
nice shitty argument

where is the mind housed?
you can say brain all you want, doesn't prove shit

>>199

The mind is an aspect of consciousness and intelligence. Consciousness is the state of awareness. Those are abstract states of being, and those can actually be scientifically measured, unlike the soul.

>>200

I suppose you could measure consciousness as in if someone is medically alert or not, but I think you might have stepped a bit to far to say science can measure the consciousness of a person.

Perhaps science can measure a definition of consciousness, but what I think the other guy is trying to say is that there is a spiritual consciousness that isn't apart of anything physical.

>>201

I didn't say that science can measure 'consciousness'. That's mis-reading what I actually say, and it straights away from my point. The deal is that the human mind can be measured in terms of intelligence, or functionality, but it's ability for creativity is not something that can be exactly measured because there's no standard to weight it against. Creativity is the product of the human mind, and the human mind alone. Animals are not capable of this ability. Yet they too, under certain arguments, have a SOUL. Which is subjective, and why the argument is somewhat flawed. To say there is a spiritual consciousness that isn't physical is all blow-hard habberdashery. There's nothing scientific, nothing factual, and nothing concrete about it. I understand it's zealous to say 'there is no soul' but it's also zealous to say 'well there is a soul since you can't prove one.' It goes both ways, and in this case, it just really doesn't prove anything to say 'if i can't prove it doesn't exist, then it does' and therefore it does exist. that's just a cop-out.

>>202

Alright hommie, let's break this down.

First,
>Creativity is the product of the human mind, and the human mind alone. Animals are not capable of this ability.

I'm not really sure what you mean by that and what it has to deal with your argument. I'm going to assume you didn't mean that animals lack the cognitive ability to be creative.

Now on to the argument:(feel free to correct me)

P1.) The concept of a "spiritual" existence, outside the physical universe is subjective.
P2.) For something to be proven to exist, there should be an objective way to measure it's existence.
3.) Therefore, a "spiritual" (and for semantics, spiritual can be the soul or an afterlife) realm cannot be proven to exist.

So far, seems pretty logical, whether or not someone agrees with it, it's logic is correct. However, you also say that:

P4.) The "spiritual" realm needs to be measured (and for semantics, measured can be a way of saying scientifically observed or tested) to be proven to exist.
5.) The "spiritual" realm cannot (or as of yet has not been able to) be measured by science.
6.) Therefore, the "spiritual" realm does not exist.

Your third premise (P4) is where you make a leap of your own opinion. You seem to be backing science pretty throughly (and to be clear, I'm not anti-science or anything like that), however P4 isn't based in anything. There's nothing that suggests a "spiritual" realm needs to be able to be proven by science to exist. The realm of the sould is something more infinite then physical reality.

Along with that, someone who is pro-soul could argue that the basic concept of a soul is not provable by science.

Also, nothing in science says that because something hasn't been measured and doesn't exist in the physical realm, it cannot have an effect on our universe.

tl;dr- too bad

>>203

You know, I was already pretty hammered when I posted that rebuttal, and now that I'm the main anti-thesis to how this conversation has gotten, I'm gonna have to re-consider how I word my rebuttals better.

Real quickly

>Your third premise (P4) is where you make a leap of your own opinion. You seem to be backing science pretty throughly (and to be clear, I'm not anti-science or anything like that), however P4 isn't based in anything. There's nothing that suggests a "spiritual" realm needs to be able to be proven by science to exist. The realm of the sould is something more infinite then physical reality.

Along with that, someone who is pro-soul could argue that the basic concept of a soul is not provable by science.

Also, nothing in science says that because something hasn't been measured and doesn't exist in the physical realm, it cannot have an effect on our universe.

Measurable units. This is how we test people for being sane versus criminal insane, as well as IQ levels. We also measure how individuals are susceptible to varying mental diseases and it shows through brainscans that individuals with aspergers, versus those with ADD or ADHD, or people who are born without those efects, act under normal brainscans. it also tells a lot about sleep patterns when we hook up nodes to observe their brainwaves.

now onto the thing you said that 'There's nothing that suggests a "spiritual" realm needs to be able to be proven by science to exist. The realm of the sould is something more infinite then physical reality. ' by the same token, you ought to prove to me that goblins and werewolves and zombies don't exist simply because i don't see them and you can't disprove they don't exist. that's a fail argument and you know it.

>Along with that, someone who is pro-soul could argue that the basic concept of a soul is not provable by science.

and thus my point. without hard facts, you're just going upon whatever superstitious belief system you've found that is comfortable for you. it's convenient that you see things this way, but it's not a universal truth for all human beings. in fact, many people would find it the opposite. as far as i'm concerned, the only 'universal truth' is scientific fact that can be proven and re-proven again and again through the scientific method.

>>204

Haha, ok well I didn't know you were drinking, so I'm not going to feel bad that I wrote out a big long thing in response to your drunk text.

I'm quite positive my summary of your argument is accurate and my summary of it's flaws are accurate.

Now this is a poor straw-man:
>By the same token, you ought to prove to me that goblins and werewolves and zombies don't exist simply because i don't see them and you can't disprove they don't exist.

I said very clearly, "The realm of the soul is something more infinite then physical reality." This might be bad phrasing, so let me be clear: The realm of the soul is infinite, and goes beyond the physical reality. This I think, when referring to the general definition of a "soul", is pretty accurate. A soul is something outside the body, but apart of the being. It's apart of the consciousness but lives on after the person dies.

So I suggested that the "spiritual" realm is beyond physical reality, and is therefore difficult or impossible to prove with science. Your straw-man brings up things in the physical world that science says does not, or cannot exist. Goblins and werewolves can be proven or disproved by science because they hypothetically exist in physical reality.

>and thus my point. without hard facts, you're just going upon whatever superstitious belief system you've found that is comfortable for you. it's convenient that you see things this way, but it's not a universal truth for all human beings. in fact, many people would find it the opposite. as far as i'm concerned, the only 'universal truth' is scientific fact that can be proven and re-proven again and again through the scientific method.

This is a bit of scientific imperialism, which I expected would come up. I'm sure many of the truths you find in science are based on assumptions. This is the problem with saying that science MUST hold all the answers. You see science is based on assumptions such as there are multiple minds, past events exist, there isn't just a God who is messing with you, etc. You make those assumptions based on your senses and what you perceive to be reality. And on those assumptions, you build scientific theory.

Now someone who believes in a "spiritual realm" does so, not out of complete irrationality, but because they sense and perceive their to be something beyond the physical reality, much like you sense and perceive that other people have minds and that the past exists. They build theories and test them through logic (or they should) and come to their conclusion.

You cannot disprove, nor prove, either one of you are correct. Which is why I said your first argument is correct, but not your second. You have to accept the fact you may just be wrong and as you say, that's the end game, folks.

inb4 philsofags accuse me of skepticism

>>196
>>197
>>198
>>199
>>200
>>201
>>202
>>203
>>204
>>205

WHAT are you guys even talking about? Everyne knows that when you die your soul has to take its beliefs into account and go to heaven where it is tested for flaws. Then upon the inspection you go to heaven or hell.

science has even fuond links that part of you goes somewhere when you die as you get a bit lighter when you die but nothnig has left?

explain that!

You do have souls, god put them there. And they go to heaven, end of. Stop arguing like little schoolgirls.

>>206

Cool logic, bro.

>>206
shut the fuck up.
Prove it. give sources and scientific proof that the body gets lighter after death.

Of course, people DO shit themselves when they die violently, so...

>>101
This is what happens:

You die.
You cease to exist, and you no longer have a point of view.

That's it.

>>206
that is one obvious troll
you don't get judged until judgment day idiot

troll successful

Death is like eternal sleep.

My mind will dissapear and my body will rot into the ground. If you think of it, I'm actually made of millions of dead creatures, who have died and become soil, of which plants are grown from and eaten by my ancestors.

My mind will dissapear and my body will rot into the ground. If you think of it, I'm actually made of millions of dead creatures, who have died and become soil, of which plants are grown from and eaten by my ancestors.

>>266
this,but,what are you talking about with your mind?
are you talking of all your brain cells witch create pulse that are the origin of what and how you see things and lead you to a reaction caused by what you've seen and decide of what you think of something and what choice to make of it?

>>274
My mind is just a name used to describe the pulses my brain creates. It doesn't really exist.

>>278
You mean like an ass?

I have heard lots of varying theories on the subject of reincarnation...

One such theory is that we are all the same soul so to speak... Each time we die, we are reincarnated to a random point which may be ahead or behind us, and we are placed into that body... There is lots of debate whether we retain what we learned or not, but at any rate, this is the belief that I adhere to, making the point of existence the quest for complete knowledge

the most common theory of reincarnation however is that based on how we lived our life, when we die we are "allotted" to were we deserve (i.e. if you are evil you might become a rat or a bug or whatever)... This is the most common belief in asia, but I personally don't adhere to it myself

When my body starts to die, I am sedated by the waning blood pressure. I am sleepy, contented, but somehow slightly panicked also. By brain realizes it is about to die and splurges any endorphines that it has. I feel even more contented...sedated. My mind is now detached to the world, and it begins to richochet through my thoughts and experiences. Time slows down which to the mind, can seem like an eternity waiting for the remnants of thoughts to run out of fuel. I have been dead 30 minutes now, and have relived my entire life 10 times in a row, deep in the cavernous abyss that is the uncharted universe we call the human skull.

>>345
see, that is a POV.

nicely done. it can't possibly offend anyone regardless on religious dogma, and it may even satisfy the athiests.

>>345
implying that headtrama victims dont enter heaven, wtf. I mean, death is death. You dont fuckin...die better than other people...and then get an afterlife. fuck off.

>>348
implying there is transcending fairness in an unfair universe.

There's life under ground....

It doesn't ever move, It doesn't make a sound

I think we're reincarnated, Im not a religious person, but I wouldn't exactly call myself an atheist, I have a set of beliefs that I haven't found a religion to coincide with. I think that we're just shells for a soul, and when we die were pushed into another shell.

Its like falling asleep. Don't even know it happens, or that it's happening.

It will be the same as sitting in an office cubicle without any electronics plugged in and only enough arm-space to shake a fist against your ribcage. It will first be comfortable yet rather warm, until the heat fades into cold and the office decays to be taken by worms and insects which live underground. As a note, the air would be stuffy and would suffocate even the soul.

If you wanted my opinions on what would happen to my soul or spirit after I die, I honestly don't have a thought towards it other than it either leaving my flesh or staying trapped in this container humans call a body. Other creatures and cannibals call it food.